Born Free Leap'n Lions RV Club Info & Discussion Forum

I was reading todays issue 2/9/23 of "Mortons On The Move" and about switching my 2- 12 volt house batteries to Lithium.
Maybe I read it wrong; but yes, nothing needs to be changed. May not get 100% performance? Any comments please?

I see Lithium batteriers continue to come down in price. Maybe 300 bucks each with good reviews from Amazon for off name brand? Thanks
Would be fun to try.

Also 2023 Dues are due.... haven't paid mine yet but will. $15 to support this great site.

I am interested in this topic as well. Does this depend on what type of converter/inverter is in the coach? I have an older model and wondered if I could make such a conversion.

No. You need to change out your converter/charger to one that is compatible with lithium batteries. I would recommend the Progressive Dynamics model PD4655VL modern 3-stage unit that has a switch for lithium battery compatibility. Click on the following link for info from Best-Converter.com: https://www.bestconverter.com/4600-seri ... c_133.html

The procedure to follow to change out you converter/charger is explained in the post on this website by clicking on the following link: viewtopic.php?t=2482

Thanks Bill..... here's a link to that Mortons on the move, that say No Changes????
https://www.mortonsonthemove.com/how-to ... batteries/

I upgraded to a 170 amp/hour Renogy lithium battery three years ago. I did upgrade my solar charge controller to one that is compatible with lithium but I still have the same converter. It will not fully charge my battery but it does no harm. I am seldom plugged in so it is not much of an issue. I have 400 watts of solar panels and it will get me fully charged as long as there is sun.

Referring to stevek’s post above: The following is copied from the link he posted:

Battery Chargers

Now that we have an understanding of the charge differences, it’s clear that a lithium-specific charger will be beneficial. The benefit is typically faster charging. Yet, this does not mean that a lead-acid battery charger will not work. In fact, we have installed lots of lithium batteries that have worked fine with existing chargers in the RV. Usually, the owner will eventually decide to upgrade the charger to get more benefit from the batteries however like faster charging and more full batteries.

Most of the time, drop-in lithium iron phosphate batteries will work with existing equipment as long as the charger does not have automatic equalization.
Usually, if the battery charger is programmable, you can reprogram it to work with lithium. However, sometimes a charger will only have different charge profile settings. If there is no lithium setting, AGM is usually the best choice.

Conversely, if the charger is fully programmable, it’s always best to get the proper voltage settings for bulk, absorption, and float from the manufacturer of your lithium-ion batteries.

To me the info on this site seems to recommend a charger that is lithium battery compatible for best charging results.

Just a question on the lithium batteries change. I have been reading about fires with batteries and wondered if that is any consideration on these as the MH is unattended a lot a fire would be devastating

Interesting. I have not heard anything of the 12 volt Lithium batts catching on fire. That is certainly something to consider. Thanks
Anybody else heard of RV Fires???

I have a Chevy Bolt EV and had to have the battery replaced. A few of these cars were catching fire which made me somewhat uneasy.
I sure wouldn't want the same feeling in my Born Free

Most of the drop in lithium batteries are LiFePO4 which is very stable. Most electric cars use a different chemistry than LiFePO4. You can search YouTube and you will find videos of battery fires. It is very difficult to get a LiFePO4 battery to go into thermal runaway. Drop in batteries have built in battery management systems that prevent you from doing bad things to them.

Thanks..I tried looking for any info/ videos of 12 volt DC 100 amp Lithium Batteries catching fire and could not find anything.
Anybody have a link of such a fire?

The fact that you couldn't find anything implies that LiFePO4 is quite safe. A search of YouTube for "LiFePO4 fire" turned up the following:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8xNjz73p80
Will Prowse is considered one of the best sources for batteries and solar. He goes on to say "In some ways LiFePO4 is safer than a big pile of wood"

LiFePO4 puncture test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07BS6QY3wI8&t=193s
This did result in a fire but no explosion.

So this thread is a little old, but I figured I would chime in as I have a good bit of experience with the topic.

I've worked in the datacenter UPS industry for over 20 years now, 19 years handling escalation support and then the past 3 in product management. In that time I have dealt with hundreds of smoke/fire type issues related to batteries. The vast majority of the time the issues were due to user neglect, but one common thread is that I never saw a single "thermal event" related to a LiFePo4 lithium battery like you would use in an RV. 100% of them were traditional lead acid batteries. The fires you see with EV cars (or scooters or cell phones) are from different types of lithium batteries. The EV industry is moving towards LiFePo4 batteries now due to the improved safety. The only downside is that their power density isn't quite as good.

Now for charging - You can absolutely "drop in" a lithium battery with your stock converter. The downside is that it will only charge to around 80%. Lithium batteries can use 100% of their capacity vs lead acid only using 50%, so even if its only charged to 80% its still a big step up. They dont have issues with "memory" and wont be damaged - You can always just upgrade your converter later on and get them charged to the full 100%.

The one thing you do have to keep in mind is alternator charging. Connecting a Lithium battery directly to your alternator can result in your alternator being damaged. A drained lithium battery will draw power at such a rate that it will overload your alternator and burn it out. The fix is to disconnect alternator charging or use a DC/DC charger between the alternator and the battery. Basic DC/DC chargers cost between $100-150 and are simple to install. They will limit the amount of current being passed and will boost the voltage to the appropriate level to fully charge a lithium battery.

You can get cheap (but decent) lithium batteries for around $300 for a 100AH now, which is within spitting distance of AGM prices. They work great

Hope this helps!
Liam

I installed a 170AH Renogy LiFePo4 battery three years ago and it is directly connected to my alternator. This past winter I added a 100AH LiFePo4 and still have had no issues. But, I do plan on adding a DC to DC converter which will charge my batteries fully and give me some peace of mind.