Maintenance on E450

[Jim Hofmann]

I am having a problem getting the Ford Agencies in the area to provide service (please don't laugh, I do expect after sale service from a company)

The reported problem is "We do not service RV's if it is a truck related problem take it to RV Barber Ford who handle all Rv's and particularly Fords. I call RV Barber Ford and they say they do not have diesel qualified personel. As I have a diesel, I have a problem. To get some recall work done several month ago I had to take the coach to a Ford dealer in Lancaster CA. This is a couple of hours drive from here and a real pain for routine or warranty work. On two occasions I talked the local Ford Dealer into handling the recall work as I got them to check with the head machanic and confirm he could do it.

My latest problem is my temperature guage. It never flucuates after getting up to temp. I can be going up a steep grade in the dessert and the auxillery fan is roaring away and the heat guage does not flinch. I want Ford to check this out and all of the local Ford acencies will not handle it. Call to and emails to the head service manager of the agencies go unanswered and or not returned. They, the local agencies, say I must take my unit to the Ford truck center in Los Angeles. I avoid Los Angeles like the plague, for obvious reasons.

Any suggestions on how to get the local agencies to service their products?

[Barbara & Ken]

Sorry if this is a stupid question. Have you contacted Ford for suggestions of authorized Ford diesel service centers near . . . or at least close . . . to your location?

[grross]

Jim...Have you tried the Ford RV Help LIne that is located in AZ (1-800-444-3311)???
Unfortunately if you get to a GOOD 6.0 Diesel mechanic who also knows and understands the E-450 6.0 application, he will tell you that is the way it is. Unlike the 7.3 ford diesel the 6.0 diesel in the cut away chassis has inadequate cooling to support the 2005 emissions and the inclusion of an afta cooler. I like you have the 2005 BF with the 6.0 diesel. I chased the problem for 15 months to get the final answer from dearborn. With limited mileage I am on my 3rd turbo and 4th EGR valve. Although I have added a larger oil pan to improve cooling capacity, we still need ear plugs to cope with the fan noise when the cooling system reaches 217 degrees...my dash guage like yours does not move when the fan goes on!! Good luck finding a dealer to service your BF. Unfortunately Dodgen Industries was not aware of this issue when they switched to the 6.0 diesel.

[Jim Hofmann]

Barbara and Ken: Not a stupid question at all. YES I did contact the Ford RV people (they are the ones that suggested LA and Lacaster. I also phone Ford headquarters Customer Relations, to ask them to intercede in this matter and they said these agencies are private and can do business with whomever they want.
They did give me a name and number for a Ford agency in North Hollywood. Although this is in the LA basin area, I think I will contact them and see what they think they may be able to do for me.

Thanks for you imput
Jim

[BornFree_n_Now]

Jim:

Although it is a 130 mile drive to Bakersfield, it is far easier to deal with than LA ~~ the dealership you should check with first is:

Jim Burke Ford Sterling Trucks & Lincoln-Downtown
2001 Oak St, Bakersfield, CA 93301
661-328-3711

[Dave&JanPotter]

I don't have an answer to your problem with the Ford dealers but maybe I can share some light on your current problem with the temp gauge. I have the V-10 and the temp gauge, even though it looks like a gauge is not really a gauge. It is controlled from the computer and when the temp rises to a certain temp which I don't remember offhand, it indicates about mid-dial and then stays there until the engine gets to an overheat condition when it rises to that indication. What I am trying to say is that there are only about 3 positions to the gauge....cold, normal and overheat. It does not follow/indicate the exact temperature of the engine at any given time. It wouldn't surprise me if the diesel gauge worked the same way. I suggest you search the tech forum at RV net for more info.

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

I think an after market set of guages with the proper placement of sensors/senders could be very useful (ie., EGT, boost, tranny and engine oil temps). I've looked at what's available and I'm a bit overwhelmed with the complexity of options. I did see a mount for 3 guages that fits vertically on the windshield post. It looks nice, would be easy to monitor while driving but I already have a bit of trouble seeing cars behind the post. Has anyone seen a package of gauges that fits our needs and is well designed?

We had a '84 Vanagan with a gauge that was designed to peg just at the time you really needed to see how much trouble you were in. After 2 sets of heads and putting in my own gauge I found out it was almost always on the edge of trouble. The factory gauge sensor was mounted in a location that showed more of an average water temp. In some conditions you could have a problem without the gauge responding much at all. Of course, the early Vanagon problems were unique to its design. It had an insufficient cooling jacket and volume of flow so it only serves to show the diversity of issues we might be dealing with.

OBTW, and just my opinion. I would not expect the larger oil pan to have much affect on egr and turbo problems. Of course it can't hurt but the 6.0L already has about 4 gallons of oil which is a pretty large pool. I'd be looking for more cooling capacity from alternate or add-on radiators and oil coolers. Here's another theory since the problems appear to be in the exhaust system. Try changing driving habits. When driving in the mountains I've found that I can drive at a speed that keeps the fan off or at a very low speed. On most long grades this usually allows me to stay above 45-50 mph. I like to keep the rpms at a minimum too but sometimes it seems that letting the fan govern your speed can result in excessive shifting - so that's also something to manage at the same time. By keeping the rpms and fuel flow down you'll reduce the egt - and increase your mpg by quite a bit. In other words it could be that Ford or IH did not detune the 6.0L enough and the driver must learn to back off the demand. Its nice to have the power available for the occasional emergency maneuver, passing or entering the freeway but we have to learn where that invisible line is and how to avoid it on the long grade or open highway (and avoid wearing out the fan clutch and transmission at the same time). I don't have much experience with the 6.0 yet and haven't driven in really hot weather either. It's probably a tough balance - just an idea for now. What do you all think?

Mike

[BonaProf]

I am sorry to hear of the problem getting a 450 diesel worked on. I was considering buying that model, but now I am not so sure.

Is it only Ford diesel 450's that has had problems or the gasoline engine as well?

Have members had problems getting their Ford gasoline 450s fixed at Ford dealers?

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

I am sorry to hear of the problem getting a 450 diesel worked on. I was considering buying that model, but now I am not so sure.

Is it only Ford diesel 450's that has had problems or the gasoline engine as well?

Have members had problems getting their Ford gasoline 450s fixed at Ford dealers?

It's probably a local issue. Some Ford dealers don't service RVs and some may not service diesels. I live in a small town and our local Ford dealer happens to service the diesel and RV's. Having said that, I'm am one who is of the opinion that the dealership is where you have to take a new vehicle to get warranty work done. If it is not warranty work I prefer an independant mechanic based on a perception of poor performance of dealers doing warranty service on my new cars overs the past 40 years compared to merely adequate performance on my out of warranty service from independant service agencies. (I do most of my own maintenance [up to and including major engine rebuilds] on my vehicles - not because I like being a grease monkey but because I have rarely found a trustworthy or competent mechanic.)

Regarding troubles with the 6.0L there's no doubt that there are some who have had severe reoccuring troubles like grross here on our forum. These seem to be isolated experiences based on my research (including the references cited by grross) and experiences of several acquaintances who own PSDs. I didn't find the 2005 6.0L to have a significant risk of trouble. Those with problems appear to be few. And its currious that those problems appear to be localized to the EGR systems and the turbos - with the majority of trouble to have been in the 2003 and 2004 models. So far I have not been dissapointed with our 2005 6.0L. In the first year and 9000 miles, our PSD has performed flawlessly and has more than met our expectations. In my opinion, it has been an outstanding performer. It has averaged 12.5 mpg, 11 mpg in city traffic and up to 14 mpg highway with good pulling power in the mountains and more than adequate acceleration when it's needed. The local dealer replaced the EGR valve per a factory recall though there was no symptoms of a problem.

Give me a couple more years and I may eat these words - however - so far so good.

Mike

[robert newby]

Hi Jim -- I posted a reply while we were on the road but it doesn't seem to be listed -- call me and I'll discuss what I do for maintance and also tell you what happened to me yesterday !!! --- BobN

[bill crommett]

For some reason or other, Ford dealers (the only kind I have had to deal with) seem to view theor resposibility to the Ford owner with a bit of abandon. On a different coach with a v-10 engine I made an appointment with a local Ford dealer for some work the next day. However the tomorrow service manager turned me away saying they didn't work on motorhomes. I pleaded that the engine was the very same engine as in a couple of the pick-ups waiting for service. The service manager said: "I won't let any of my Monkeys near a motorhome". Another Ford dealer some 150 miles away told me that they will not order any parts until the unit is in their lot. Fortunately the Ford dealers parts departmen was real nice to me and when my independent mechinic told me what was needed, the parts were ordered and I had the independent do the work. Worse yet, a big Ford dealer who did RV work had some dummy mechanics who couldn't find how to open the hood on my Winnebago. My complaint to Ford Motor Company resulted in an insultingly patronizing reply. To relieve my blood pressure now, I find it is esier to pay the independent than to try to get warrantee work from Ford, assuming it is not a major problem (knock on wood )

[CHARLOTTE]

Just my 2 cents....I have all my work done by my local RV shop. After just putting 4000 miles on my E450 Super Duty Triton V10 engine on my trip to Iowa+ and back, I had absolutely no problems. This engine now has over 80K miles on it and it runs beautifully. Believe me, some of the roads I was on (unbelieveably bad) and the climbs & altitudes I was in...I'm amazed that something didn't go wrong. I don't bother with Ford dealers and trust the shop I go to completely. Too bad there aren't more good RV shops out there....I just consider myself lucky. And by the way, the price I pay is fair for my area.....

[Trisha]

We should forward a copy of this entire thread to Ford. I wonder if they'd care.

No wonder they're having such sales troubles in the US.

Trish

[Trisha]

I couldn't send the thread, so I sent a letter to them, suggesting that people who could afford vehicles with the Ford Chassis in this price range might be customers worth pleasing! We usually have at least one other car...

I suggested there are enough of us (if youinclude all Cl C's on these chassis) that they should have a special RV service bay for the 14,000 lb vehicle.

After all, given their sales figures, and their problems, they can't really afford to alienate those with debatably deeper pockets than the average Ford Focus buyer.

As a stockholder, I also felt I had a right and a responsibility to point this out. At least they ought to KNOW that this is an issue.

So, it's done. I'll let you know if I hear anything.

Patricia

[bill crommett]

It must be the same line of thinking that pervades the grocery chains that advertize " ask us and we will find an answer" . So we ask, and thats the end of it, no response, no recognition, no action. Just a pat on the head, and a "nice little fellow, keep coming back with money "