Why so different than nada prices and why no activity in for

[member7777]

New to the RV world, wandered around until I came across BF, forum seems pretty quiet so I thought I would ask my noob questions in case someone is around-
1. Doesn't seem to be any activity in the for sale section-why?
2. Why is the nada price so much lower than the asking price on the BF?
3. Would someone consider leasing their BFT for a month or 2 in the winter?

I am 63 with no moving violations for the last 25+ years, and will provide insurance and an appropriate deposit of course.

[randallrae]

NADA basis its prices on standard depreciation of all class C's . Born Free is not an ordinary class C .

[member7777]

NADA basis its prices on standard depreciation of all class C's . Born Free is not an ordinary class C .

So it is an artificially inflated market based strictly on demand that exceeds limited supply?
Just asking because it would seem to be a rather risky proposition in trying to determine a "fair" price.
I spent a considerable amount of time before arriving here, landing on a couple of promising models before discovering quality control issues that seem to plague this market at affordable price levels (except BF from what I can gather).

[thestoloffs]

NADA basis its prices on standard depreciation of all class C's . Born Free is not an ordinary class C .

So it is an artificially inflated market based strictly on demand that exceeds limited supply?
Just asking because it would seem to be a rather risky proposition in trying to determine a "fair" price.
I spent a considerable amount of time before arriving here, landing on a couple of promising models before discovering quality control issues that seem to plague this market at affordable price levels (except BF from what I can gather).

{Emphasis added}

You've found the answer, and it's not just that the demand exceeds supply -- for natural reasons.

Born Free coaches are built on a steel roll cage frame by dedicated teams, who perform all the assembly themselves start-to-finish in a low-volume process that puts Quality Control first and foremost. That's a lot different from the high-volume process assembly lines, with wooden frames.

That's why there's a higher resale price -- because it really is a better coach!

[member7777]

NADA basis its prices on standard depreciation of all class C's . Born Free is not and ordinary class C .

So it is an artificially inflated market based strictly on demand that exceeds limited supply?
Just asking because it would seem to be a rather risky proposition in trying to determine a "fair" price.
I spent a considerable amount of time before arriving here, landing on a couple of promising models before discovering quality control issues that seem to plague this market at affordable price levels (except BF from what I can gather).

{Emphasis added}

You've found the answer, and it's not just that the demand exceeds supply -- for natural reasons.

Born Free coaches are built on a steel roll cage frame by dedicated teams, who perform all the assembly themselves start-to-finish in a low-volume process that puts Quality Control first and foremost. That's a lot different from the high-volume process assembly lines, with wooden frames.

That's why there's a higher resale price -- because it really is a better coach!

And so apparently you throw caution to the wind and pay whatever price you can negotiate based on faith. So it goes.

[Roger H]

NADA basis its prices on standard depreciation of all class C's . Born Free is not and ordinary class C .

So it is an artificially inflated market based strictly on demand that exceeds limited supply?
Just asking because it would seem to be a rather risky proposition in trying to determine a "fair" price.
I spent a considerable amount of time before arriving here, landing on a couple of promising models before discovering quality control issues that seem to plague this market at affordable price levels (except BF from what I can gather).

NADA is artificially under-reported. It's the same with fiberglass travel trailers like Scamp, Casita, and the like. If you can find one priced at NADA book, snatch it up 'cause it's a good buy! The right price for a coach is the price that both the buyer and seller are happy with. Sometimes 'book value' just doesn't mean much.

Like any other commodity, it's about condition, condition, and condition. Many Born Free coaches are low-mileage, and even the higher-mileage older coaches are generally meticulously maintained. The folks who buy Born Free coaches tend to take VERY good care of them, and many of us travel a lot in them. The numbers of them still on the road from the 1990s is testament that they're SO well built.

Many of us have had more than one Born Free... I'm on my second. If you can find a floorplan that suits your needs at a price you're willing to pay, you won't be disappointed. Motorhomes are complex machines with a lot of systems, NOT including the chassis which is a whole 'nother issue. The appliances, plumbing, tanks, and most other hardware are third-party sourced, and all manufacturers use the same hardware. The only thing that the manufacturer can claim as theirs is the quality of workmanship and materials in the coach along with the fit and finish. A poorly-constructed coach made of cheap materials will shake apart quickly leading to all kinds of issues. Born Free, on the other hand, is built with quality out of quality materials by folks who care about the product they're building. That's not to say that things don't break, leak, or fail; but the factory service is extraordinary, and the coaches are generally designed and built for serviceability (with a few exceptions...)

I had an '01 23' rear kitchen model, and literally my ONLY complaint was that it didn't have a rear walk-around queen bed. That's remedied in my '06 32 RQ model, so I'm extraordinarily happy with my coach. No product will satisfy everyone; but I sure don't have any complaints about either of the two Born Free coaches I've had, the quality of construction and materials, or the service from the factory.

Happy hunting!

On Edit... apparently we posted at the same time...

And so apparently you throw caution to the wind and pay whatever price you can negotiate based on faith. So it goes.

I think that would be extraordinarily foolish. There are good deals to be found if you're patient and willing to travel. In the case of my current coach, I bought it at a dealership for almost $20k UNDER 'NADA book.' Do your homework... find out what prices are on these coaches and their competition. You'll find that used Born Free coaches, when compared to similar-quality coaches like Coachouse, Chinook, or Dynamax that the asking prices are quite competitive. In the Super-C coaches, the comps for my coach are the Jayco Senecas and Gulfstream Enduras. My coach was priced at about 1/2 the asking prices for similar coaches of those models. And none of those brands have the roll-cage structure that is unique to Born Free.

[member7777]

I'm glad you got 50% off nada, everything I see on bft is 100% higher or more. seems impossible to make a logical decision based on these asking prices.

[Roger H]

I'm glad you got 50% off nada, everything I see on bft is 100% higher or more. seems impossible to make a logical decision based on these asking prices.

Why? I'm not sure why that's a problem for you. As I said, NADA pricing is under-reported, and even with the current asking prices, used Born Free coaches are still priced significantly less expensive than other coaches of comparable quality build. Have you done comps on Dynamax and Coachhouse?

As I said, the same thing happens in small fiberglass trailers, and the market has been that way now for at least 15 years. Used units are snapped up within days of listing at asking price, or nearly so. That's just the free-market economy, a small supply stream and large demand.

My coach was only about 25% below NADA retail and similar 32' Born Frees on the market at the time... but it was about half the asking prices of similar Kodiak chassis Senecas or Enduras at the time, and is a superior coach to them in every way. Mine was priced lower because it had some maintenance issues, but I jumped on it. The new 2016 version of my coach runs about $236k, so I'm quite pleased with the value I bought for my money.

I suspect that you're over-looking some important issues in buying a motorhome. The true cost of ownership of a motorhome, long-term, includes the purchase price, maintenance, fuel expenses, and most importantly depreciation. THE most important factor in selling a motorhome when it's time to move on is demand. There are tons of inexpensive motorhomes out there that have been on the market a long time, and will continue to be on the market because they're junk and there's no demand for them. There's always a demand for Born Free coaches on the used market, regardless of age or mileage, and you'll find them in every pricing segment because, as I said earlier, there are still early '90s vintage Born Free mohos out there being used regularly. I sold my '01 Born Free 23RK for what I paid for it after using it for three years! So the total cost of ownership of that coach, for me, was pretty low as I got the complete return on the purchase price and didn't lose anything to depreciation. There aren't many coaches you can own for three years for just the cost of fuel, maintenance, interest, and insurance.

If and when it ever comes time to sell my 32 RQ, I suspect that I'll be in pretty much the same place financially with it. They're a very good value.

Just a little different take on the financials...

And on edit (again...):

One more thought... when I was in the process of buying my coach, I couldn't figure out how the air ride suspension worked and subsequently whether it WAS working... so I called the Born Free factory while I was on the showroom floor. I left a phone message for Kim Olson, the service manager and he called me back within five minutes. He pulled up the line sheet and photos on my coach while we were on the phone and very patiently explained exactly what I needed to know. I've called the factory from the interstate because I lost an A/C shroud somewhere west of Denver, chatted with Kim, and figured out how best to deal with the issue. I've had my 32' coach in for service at the factory and they're fast, efficient, and really pleasant.

As part of the deal when I bought my used '01 from the factory in '06, Ed had all of the interior seating swapped out from blue cloth to tan ultraleather for me as part of the deal. Where else can you have the interior custom-done as you want it on a five-year old, used coach?

I realize that those are just personal anecdotes, but just about everyone who owns a Born Free has similar stories, so I know I'm not receiving 'special treatment' even though it feels that way. It's just the way Born Free does business. You might be able to get similar factory support from other boutique manufactures, I don't know... but you sure as h*ll won't get it from Winnebago or ANY of the manufacturers in Elkhart.

That kind of service is worth to me whatever I paid for my coach. You just can't get it anywhere else.

[Dude]

I found that newer BF's are high priced and I would never be able to afford one. I owned a 1989 Born Free. At that age it was just an old RV and only worth the cash someone was willing to put in my hands....which was $3,300. Someone somewhere said I should have gotten a lot more . I originally paid $4k and ran it for 3 years before I went to a Travel Trailer. I was happy with it while I owned it. It was just time to get something with bunks for the kiddos.

[Dallas Baillio]

I have posted this before about the value of an item. A fair price is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller.

I watch a lot of Antiques Roadshow on PBS. They feature paintings, guns, furniture, pottery and all other manner of things. I've seen many items valued by the appraiser at a very reasonable price that I would not even make an offer on. A willing seller but not a willing buyer. I've seen items valued at a price than most people would be unwilling to pay but that I would gladly purchase at the appraised amount. A willing buyer and a willing seller. In these situations the appraisal is the book value.

When I purchased my BF I knew I was paying more than "book" value. In making my decision I weighed just how much more I was willing to pay. I know the seller wanted more than I was willing to pay. He compromised and I compromised and we made a deal. I was the willing buyer at that price and he was the willing seller.

If you are of a mind that paying more than book value (which is no more than a guideline) is crazy, nuts, etc. you may miss out on owning the BF that is suitable for you. On the other hand you do want to know a reasonable price. You do this by looking at what other BF's of comparable age, mileage and condition sell for. Not at what other Class C motorhomes sell for, only at BF selling prices.

I have a 2001 Rear side bed with 133,000 miles. I have maintained it well. Looking at other comparable BF's online I estimate that a fair price for mine would be $22,000 - $25,000. High mileage reduces, but condition partially offsets that. Can I get that amount? If the shopper is aware of the differences in construction and quality most likely I can. If not I will get a lot of low ball offers and complaints that I am asking more than book value.

[Dallas Baillio]

Dude,

Where have you been? I miss your posts.

[member7777]

I have posted this before about the value of an item. A fair price is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller.

I watch a lot of Antiques Roadshow on PBS. They feature paintings, guns, furniture, pottery and all other manner of things. I've seen many items valued by the appraiser at a very reasonable price that I would not even make an offer on. A willing seller but not a willing buyer. I've seen items valued at a price than most people would be unwilling to pay but that I would gladly purchase at the appraised amount. A willing buyer and a willing seller. In these situations the appraisal is the book value.

When I purchased my BF I knew I was paying more than "book" value. In making my decision I weighed just how much more I was willing to pay. I know the seller wanted more than I was willing to pay. He compromised and I compromised and we made a deal. I was the willing buyer at that price and he was the willing seller.

If you are of a mind that paying more than book value (which is no more than a guideline) is crazy, nuts, etc. you may miss out on owning the BF that is suitable for you. On the other hand you do want to know a reasonable price. You do this by looking at what other BF's of comparable age, mileage and condition sell for. Not at what other Class C motorhomes sell for, only at BF selling prices.

I have a 2001 Rear side bed with 133,000 miles. I have maintained it well. Looking at other comparable BF's online I estimate that a fair price for mine would be $22,000 - $25,000. High mileage reduces, but condition partially offsets that. Can I get that amount? If the shopper is aware of the differences in construction and quality most likely I can. If not I will get a lot of low ball offers and complaints that I am asking more than book value.

Thank you. Like I said, I am a noob and found it very odd there was (apparently) no relation with asking price and book value. Certainly there is no price not worth paying to avoid aggravation which seems inherent in many manufacturers poorly made products.

[whemme]

member7777,

The accuracy of the values provided by NADA is approximately equal to what you paid NADA for that advice!

[member7777]

member7777,

The accuracy of the values provided by NADA is approximately equal to what you paid NADA for that advice!

For everything or just BF? I know nothing about RVs or NADA but I find your statement incredulous.

[Dallas Baillio]

Member 7777,

Thanks for using noob! I added it to my vocabulary.

Maybe NADA is a kumquat